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Let's Talk About "The Vision 2030" Empty

Let's Talk About "The Vision 2030"

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Let's Talk About "The Vision 2030" Empty Re: Let's Talk About "The Vision 2030"

Post by Paul2CV on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:06 pm

Hi Forum,

We have had a good discussion so far which has centered on the 2030 Vision for CV. One of the 2030 goals has been a topic we have been considering -- health care. Here is what the 2030 Vision says it would hope:

Medical Park/Hospital: Along with surrounding communities, a Medical Park
was planned and developed with doctors’ offices, a hospital, progressive medical
care, equipped emergency ambulances, and medical support services.


This vision is forward-looking in all the right ways. We have focused a lot on costs. Rightly so. But the other side is the cost of not acting. We are losing people for healthcare reasons. Solid residents. These are people who retired here and wanted to stay. Even Mildred Cooper herself ultimately had to leave the Village for healthcare reasons. After all her hard labor, she too had to move on.

But mostly we haven't discussed all the economic positives. A medical park means jobs -- decent jobs at all levels.


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Post by mike on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:55 pm

Also, if we eventually get rid of the nonsense and actually become a wet county, there possibly could be some revenue coming from that if there was an extra little county booze tax. This is all doable, folks. You are being duped by the dry side. Let's convince the die hard head in the sand doom and gloomers that the world will not come to an end if Sharp County Arkansas becomes a wet county. This whole issue is so ridiculous I can't believe in 2011 we are still debating wet/dry nonsense. Good grief, get it done, get it done now, tax the crap out of it, take some of that money and put it towards excellent, reasonable, reliable health care that we can all count on.

Can I say out loud that the dry side leadership would rather see a higher percentage of emergency care victims die than rather have the county they live in become wet? I will publicly say that I do believe that statement.

There. I said it.

Anyone disagree with me? Can you in pro-dry leadership look me straight in the eye and tell me otherwise? You might, but your past actions show otherwise. There are too many people in Sharp County who have the sense to see it for what it is, complete and total nonsense.

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Post by mike on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:41 pm

I despise the idea of a new local sales tax, as I like taxes as low as possible, and a new tax does nothing but add to other problems, but maybe that would do it. Loads of money would be received from tourists spending money, and sales taxes are paid by people who spend money. If you spend loads of money, you're paying more tax than those that live very modestly and don't spend much money. It's an idea, and like I said, it's not my favorite idea, but it has to be looked at. Bottom line, we need a 24 hr ER on the 4 lane for the Quad Cities. How are we going to do that and make it feasible for years to come?

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Post by Paul2CV on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:44 am

Hi Trout,

Good discussion. You bring up several important points. It is absolutely the case that most hospitals are non-profits and most struggle to do more than break even. This has been the state of healthcare for decades, long before Obama. We really are still waiting to find out the impact of the new regulations, but they have nothing to do with the long-standing dysfunction in the healthcare system and the past closing of many hospitals, including the one in CV.

I think that we agree that Fulton's real problem is its limited range of services and overall perception of quality in the past. Again, I know they are trying hard now. The point is that we need a real high-tech 24/7 ER at the very least and only a real full-service hospital will keep folks from thinking about leaving or "re-retiring" elsewhere. Your own story is a picture of what the problem is for so many. You're thinking of moving on. (I hope you don't and fight for the medical care you need.)

As for local government, I think we will need to agree to disagree. I have nothing against SID and believe that we now have the needed combination of governing structures. We need to remember what an unusual governmental structure SID is. Mr. Cooper had the political clout in the State Capital to get a SID for CV. I believe that at this point we are the last SID in the entire state! It also was a different time and a different population. They served and serve well and now have their proper place along side the City.

Finally, I too am a big believer in limited government. SID is a non-elected, self-perpetuating body. They have served us well but we need an elected system for police and other functions. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I have never seen a City Government get more out of a dime than City Hall.

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Post by trout on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:44 pm

Paul aren't most hospitals  non profit anyway. It may be hard to get the one cent sales tax thing since people on he south end have Walnut Ridge, west Batesville and north  West Plains. Your right about Fulton, my wife was transported there the friday before halloween and the ER was good but our insurance finally recevied the bill about two/three months later. Unheard of in this day of computers.   I would still like to see the big push for a good 24 ER and then see how it goes and move on from there.  FUlton hired  a new DR last year and now has had to let him go. That will not help bring in DRs. if and when an ER or hospital should get built. Also this obamacare has a lot of DR thing about their futures.   To be honest, my wife and I have looked into moving to MO. north of Springfield, still rural but close to hospitals, shopping, big airport. Also I am a little tired of CV city hall. I am a supporter of SID and county government. We have way to much government now days.  We need to slim down. Do we really need all the services that they tell us we need.  Funny we got along without them before.  Just my thoughts.

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Post by Paul2CV on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:19 am

Hi Trout,

You're an early riser! As my Grandpa would say, "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."

Good post. You're certainly right to bring up Fulton. God knows they are trying, but let's be blunt. It is not a hospital that offers anything like complete care. In so many emergencies, they can only send on elsewhere. Plus, it's reputation -- deserved or undeserved -- isn't the best for anything serious. It is trying to develop some niche services, but it isn't enough. And it's not what we need or what the proposed Hospital would be.

The Feasibility Report is a good read. The report is frank about the problems. It even says that a one cent local sales tax would close the gap of operating costs. It would average out as a sales tax, not a bill you get in the mail, to 61 dollars per Sharp resident per year. And one thing is clear, the issue of mismanagement was central to the demise of the former hospital.

Very, very, few hospitals anywhere in the country do better than break even. The Report tells us one other thing worth noting. That in terms of demographics, there is no difference between Sharp and other counties that have a real full-service hospital. I'm convinced the economic impact would be a huge positive in terms of jobs and the capacity of locals to stay put and not have to "retire out" of the area. Thanks again for a good post. thoughts?

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Post by trout on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:35 am

Paul, the Fulton hospital is having money problems also and it is all about not having enough people with commerical insurance and too many having medicare.  It is all about money.  That is what killed the CV hospital even if  the paperwork was late or whatever. Fulton has been doing all kinds of things tomake it work and it seems it is slowly going down. Sad to say. The ambulance service is the same way.  MONEY MONEY MONEY is needed or some type of steady funding.I really think we should first approach the 24 ER idea first see how it does and then see if we can make it grow  a little at a time into a small hospital.  Your thoughts.

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Post by Paul2CV on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:59 pm

Hi Trout, Hap, Mike, and our new members,

I want to go back to the health care issue. First, I'd like to talk about the economic impact of a hospital and specifically the economic loss from losing the one that we had until 2004. The following comes from the Hospital Feasibility Report page 6. A link to the full report is in an earlier post under this topic. This report is worth a careful read -- very well done.

The previous hospital located in Cherokee Village, Eastern Ozark Regional Health System, ceased operations on December 2, 2004 following a year of losses amounting to $660,000 in addition to losses of $1.5 million in 2003. The funding shortfall was attributed to Medicare claims not being processed in a timely manner, and therefore, not collected. The closure made an immediate economic impact to the local area by putting 142 employees out of work. The Sharp Medical Foundation proposed to purchase the privately owned 40-bed hospital for $4 million, but that deal soon collapsed when it was determined that reopening the facility would cost another $10 million to get the aged facility past structural and engineering complications. 2 Recently, the hope for a new hospital facility for Sharp County has come to light due to work by a non-profit foundation comprising of eight members, all local citizens. The Sharp County Hospital Foundation was incorporated with the Arkansas Secretary of State July 20, 2009.

Next, on page 7 of the report, we get an amazing analysis of what actually went wrong. This is very relevant to those who maintain the hospital went under because it wasn't economically sustainable. Not true! It was mismanaged according to the study. Note that the doctors say the community was "misinformed" as to the actual reason for the closing:


The Sharp County Hospital Foundation has conducted a survey among members of the local medical community in order to gain a better grasp of sentiments both toward the former hospital and the prospect of building a new one. Common feedback indicated that the former hospital was plagued with mismanagement of both personnel and facilities; furthermore, the community was misinformed about the circumstances that led to the decline and closure of Eastern Ozarks Regional Medical Center. Though the past has left the community skeptical, there is also a promise of support for a new hospital. These findings impose a responsibility upon the Foundation to be open with the community about the developments of the new hospital, something which the Foundation has expressed an openness and willingness to embrace.

Thoughts?

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Post by trout on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:28 pm

Many villagers use their golf carts when we have our village cleanup campaigns. This costs the city ZERO and ususally  King R buys lunch.  Also the carts have not caused any problems in over 50 years. So why do we need to change things.

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Post by Paul2CV on Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:49 am

Hi Trout, Mike, and Hap.

Good posts. I agree with the core spirit of what Trout and Mike are saying about the golf carts. I just don't know what the laws are and how much the City has any control. I would hate to see a legal challenge based on the golf carts that had ATVs and things like that out there. Golf carts are totally different.

The fact that the golf carters are picking up trash is great civic-minded community service. Our golfers are really invested in CV. As for the cost of trash clean up, the City is doing an excellent job. Lots of the trash is being picked up now by work-release supervised prisoners or people working off fines. I have never seen a government get more out of a dime than these folks at City Hall. They deserve some real thanks.

One thing that I know for sure is that the trash situation is night and day from where it was due to excellent code enforcement. What drives me nuts is those people who from time to time dump in the City -- just drive through and put out trash by the road. It doesn't happen hugely, but when it does happen it makes me furious. One remedy for this is a community dumpster. From a cost/benefit perspective, it would be worth it to stop those folks who dump and also give some aid to folks just visiting and needing a place for trash.


Last edited by Paul2CV on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:57 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by mike on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:53 am

Trout,

Agreed on the golf cart law. I see both sides however I think it is not all that big of a deal to let people ride their carts around their local area in the village. They're doing it anyway, with or without the law, and who really cares? I don't. Let them ride. If they pick up trash along the road also, even better.

Health district idea is what I was thinking also. I just don't think it be a whole lot of money spread out among all in the district. Ambulance included.


trout wrote:Paul Mike, two things here. The city screwed up when they passed the golf cart law. People use their carts to patrol their streets and pick up trash. Please this is a NO COST to the city item. The villagers take care of their areas. Do you think this will continue without the carts? I don't some of us walk but some use the carts in helping them get around and note without pollution. The city needs to repeal that law.

About the ER idea. Since it deals more with the quad cities the county could pass a law the makes us a "Health District" that could either as voters to increase sales tax to fund the ER or find grant funding or both. The push for a hospital needs to be reviewed and go for the ER now and if the population grows then reopen the hosptial idea. Just my thoughts.

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Post by Paul2CV on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:50 am

Hi Hap,

Thanks for your post and welcome to the discussion. There was an article or report a while back on the issue with the ambulances. I will try to find it. When the study of the proposed hospital was done there was an interesting finding of why the old hospital closed which may apply to the ambulances and perhaps even more so -- that the hospital closed largely from unclaimed Medicare compensation. See page 3 of the study:

http://www.sharpcountyhospital.com/uploads/Sharp_County_Hospital.pdf

I bet that a great deal of the ambulance problem stems not just from the "uninsured" but the need to get those people on Medicaid/Medicare and do all the paperwork and follow through. This is very hard with an emergency situation going on. If the receiving hospital would work with the ambulance people to get that paperwork applied for and filed, it might help a lot. Does anyone know the ins and outs of the billing process and Medicaid/Medicare one this issue?

Again, welcome Hap.

PS According to the hospital study, using the 2006 US Census, the total income for Sharp County was 352 million for slightly less than 18,000 residents. It averages out to $19,631 per person. Remember that "per capita" income also includes counting children and non-working adults in the average. So 19,631 is less than the average income of the actual working population of the County. 36% of our Sharp County residents are over 55.

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Post by Hap on Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:31 pm

How can we get a hospital when the ambulance service keeps complaining they going bust. Not everybody has the money that there is in cherokee but I still think the state could get some grant money from somewhere. There are people up here that need better than what we have.

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Post by trout on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:22 am

Paul Mike, two things here. The city screwed up when they passed the golf cart law. People use their carts to patrol their streets and pick up trash. Please this is a NO COST to the city item. The villagers take care of their areas. Do you think this will continue without the carts? I don't  some of us walk but some use the carts in helping them get around and note without pollution. The city needs to repeal that law.
 
About the ER idea.  Since it deals more with the quad cities the county could pass a law the makes us a "Health District" that could either as voters to increase sales tax to fund the ER or find grant funding or both. The push for a hospital needs to be reviewed and go for the ER now and if the population grows then reopen the hosptial idea. Just my thoughts.

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Post by Paul2CV on Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:21 pm

The main roadways into the city are attractive and welcoming. From 2030

Hi Forum,

This has been a good discussion. I have liked the balance of interests expressed. They all have merit. Mike's push for the hospital or at least a 24/7 ER is one I agree with strongly. We kid ourselves if we think that a community with a large retirement population and a Village designed to attract retirees can sustain itself long term without such medical care. This isn't summer camp!

I was at the Omaha pool one day hearing a conversation about a man who had basically run a new car into the ground taking his ill wife to all kinds of medical appointments miles away. He had decided to move away.

Trout is also onto something very important in talking about quality of life and keeping the basic character of the Village, which brings me to the issue of the major roads.

We need to understand that anyone's initial impression of the Village is shaped by the roads off the 4 lane that lead into Town Center. The road by the old Swim Club is a colossal eyesore. There's no way around it. Something has to be done there. The road in by the bank and shopping center is a nice and inviting drive. The third road is the one between those two. It will take you into Town Center off of Skyline or Hiawatha Drive. Thanks to Code enforcement, this route has improved greatly, but it needs constant vigilance.

What I have observed in recent years is a clear recognition that each and every part of the Village needs to be held to a single standard. This is the way to go and helps everyone. Whether one is a long time resident or a newcomer, first impressions and "visuals" matter. It may be that you are taking friends or relatives into the Village for the very first time, you shouldn't have to select your road in worrying about appearances -- they should all be equally inviting.

So as to this issue of main roads, I think the major focus needs to be on the upkeep of the properties along them. One area where there has been major improvement on these roads is in dealing with trash and litter issues. For the numbers and resources allotted to Code Enforcement, what they have accomplished is nothing short of amazing in just a few short years.

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Post by mike on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:32 pm

The census did not help, you're right on that.

However, if everyone in CV, Hardy, Highland, and Ash Flat can pretty much agree on a 24hr ER, the only real debate is how to pay for it. I am including the ambulance issue in the mix also. Good point, trout.

I am a firm believer a good local 24hr ER will jump start the area back to a slow but steady growth. When I speak of growth, I'm talking about maybe a 100 to 200 people per year net gain in the village. That is not a noticeable amount of people, but it is steady and healthy. After 20 years at 150 per year, that's only another 3000 people in the village. Remember, that's after 20 years! That is nothing. At 20 yrs out, that is not going to change the village overnight at all. Especially with all the open land in Fulton County CV side, it would turn the village into a vibrant, still very quiet, still no golf course tee times needed type of a place to live, and of course still no pollution and no traffic jams unless you count slowing down to let a golf cart or a kid on a bike cross the street. I think that is reasonable and doable, if...if...if..... if we have at the bare minimum the type of 24 hr ER I am describing. Without one for the next decade or two, and you can take the CV Cooper Vision and throw it out the window because CV will not be the same. It will be worse. It will be much worse. This must happen and we all need to find a way to make it happen, come to an agreement on how to pay for it, and then go full steam ahead until it is reality in the very near future, not 5 yrs from now. We cannot wait 5 more years.

Going wet won't hurt us either. That will help with community vibrancy, and CV and Sharp County will never turn into a mini Las Vegas strip, ever, guaranteed.. but that's another topic lol and I know Paul will have a healthy debate about that one!

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Post by trout on Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Mike you are right about not getting a hospital but  24 hour ER would be the ticket. But it is all about the money. Even the ambulance service is having a tuff time right now.  I would like to see the county or quad cities seek funding for the 24hr ER. There must be something out there that could help this happen. The 2010 census did not help us any either. Not much growth in Sharp.

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Post by mike on Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:26 am

I actually agree with both of you.

I completely agree we don't want CV like HSV or BV and I don't believe the village will ever grow to be anything like those two Cooper Communities. It's not possible. I don't want CV to be like either one of those communities. I want the village to have the same look and feel, along with some reasonable improvements, that it still looks like today. Given time, demographics, trends, and geography, CV will never be as large as either one of those so you have nothing to worry about at all in that respect. The pollution, crime, and traffic messes are things we will never see in CV in our lifetimes. That is a bet I would comfortably make. We don't want that and I agree to let BV and HSV keep their messes and not send them over this way.

Having said that, there are a few changes, or maybe a better term would be "upgrades", that would greatly benefit the village. This is not unique to CV, but every community in the US tries to better itself and become a better place to live. Some do it foolishly and spend and fritter away too much tax dollars, and some do very well. I agree that most municipalities spend way too much taxpayer money on frivolous spending projects. I also believe with CV's already limited resources, we probably won't have that happen here, simply because the money is not there, and Arkansas is already a lower tax state anyway. Well, the state's obscene and antiquated state income tax is a MAJOR detriment to the state, but that is a different subject for a different day.

Most of these reasonable requested upgrades are agreed upon by locals, transplanted northerners, retirees, as well as the "flatlanders" from afar and from the closer locales of Jonesboro and Memphis. The major upgrade most agree on is the need for a hospital, or more likely attainable and reasonable is simply just a good quality 24hr ER out on the 4 lane somewhere. That is normal, reasonable, and very doable, and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would be opposed to that. Saving and extending human life is the issue here, first and foremost, and right now we do not have an excellent way to achieve that. What we have right now is a very mediocre way to try to achieve that, and I do not think that is good enough. Nobody should think that is good enough. Those opposed to a closeby 24hr ER, local and transplant alike, well then, I can't help those people, won't even try, and won't apologize for it. Life will move forward with or without there support. There is much more benefit to a more vital CV and having a closeby ER than letting a handful of people who want to be stuck living in the past determine the emergency health care issues of the vast majority. Life swiftly passes by those people stuck in a timewarp anyway, and those in favor of trying to better a community reasonably should not have to explain away or apologize to those stuck in a self imposed living in the past philosophy.

Again, I do not want CV to ever be like BV or HSV, but I do like a few items on the Vision's wish list and number one on the list is a hospital or an ER. I can pretty much say that a hospital will never happen anytime soon, but a 24hr ER is very probable and more than likely will happen, simply because it has to. It is a requirement, not a want. It is not a luxury, it is a necessity, just like it is for thousands of rural communities around the country. Many are in the same position we are in with a very lacking local emergency medical care system, and many small communities are also having the same ridiculous fight about it that we are. It has to change.

Without that vibrant, healthy, closeby 24hr ER full fledged small medical center, I am saying with confidence that CV will go backwards, slowly and steadily decline in population, and eventually become somewhere you and I would not want to live in 2030. That would be a shame, and not something Cooper ever in his wildest dreams envisioned.

Let's find the balance and one that helps Cherokee Village Arkansas move forward reasonably, not decline into just another one of the countless small towns in the US currently experiencing slow deaths.

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Post by Paul2CV on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:32 pm

Hi trout,

Good discussion. The issue of local dynamics differing
from other Cooper Developments is not an issue for either one of us. CV has
the virtue of its location and lack of build up. Each place has its
own unique shape and feel. It needs to be respected.

The issue with CV will not be that it will get too ramped up, but maybe too laid
back to the point of overlooking slippage around the edges. (You can wreck a car two ways -- by driving to fast or falling asleep at the wheel.) That is why
I'm thrilled with this 2030 Vision. It is all staying awake, reasonable forward-looking
care of the infrastructure.

We may or may not agree on this one, but the key is consistent and evenly distributed code enforcement. I have been delighted to see how well that has been going in recent
years. The 2030 is just a filing out of the core upkeep of the Village.
Rental properties in particular need a watchful eye.

We don't want crazy build up or fussiness on the one hand or causal indifference
to appearances and maintenance on the other hand. I sense a very good balance in that
regard in the past several years and I think 2030 is a logical extension
of that care for what we have which is excellent quality of life.

Of course, congestion, crime, and pollution stink. Nobody wants that and CV is not going there. What needs to be remembered is that sleepy or inconsistent oversight will attract bad
elements as quickly as over-development. Extremes in either direction --
over development or lack of oversight both go to bad places. 2030 is
the solution and the exact right balance. I am pleased to see it laid out so well.

Paul2CV

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Post by trout on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 pm

Glad you understand where I am coming from.  Some improvements are good things but like many others who came here we liked what we saw ( like you did) really want to keep it that way.  Cooper saw the problem with the area and the village was his first experiment.  Later he really produced what he was after in the village, but it was Bella Vista, Hot Springs and several other "villages"  Our area just did not have the surrounding  features that people want.  (hospitals, major shopping areas, etc.) where BV and HS did. So we are here with out traffic problems, pollution, crime and things that BV, HS  and others do enjoy. Sad that we missed out on all the bad stuff, huh? Enjoy the village for what it is  not for what it could be.

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Post by Paul2CV on Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:01 pm

Hi trout,

I don't disagree at all with the spirit of your remark.I'd only say you would be directing it at the wrong target. "The don't come here and change things like where you came from " is an attitude I can fully appreciate and l've in fact lived through that very thing as a resident in a small town in the Catskills when the “city folk" started buying vacation houses there. I fully get what you are saying.

What needs to be remembered when talking about CV is that it is a "planned community"from the very start. By design there is no "true" resident to the Village. There were "imports" from the inception. That was the Cooper concept.

The 2030 vision isn't something I or some hypothetical "outsider" came up with. It comes from longstanding locals--many locally elected. I'm just commenting on a public statement.

On refle Iction I agree with you about the road lights. My other comments just encourage the status quo. The paths are no big thing as folks are walking over the grass as it is. I certainly am with you in wanting to keep the Village simple. Please know not everyone who has a thought or two is trying to change things. Hope that helps clear up where I'm trying to come from. Thanks for the post.


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Post by trout on Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Paul, why did you come here if all you want is to make it like where you came from.  We don't need street lights, nor do we need to change the low water bridges.  Use some common sense when you  see the bridge is flooded.  Any way have you  seen the 2010 census for the village not much improved from 10 years ago. So this "vision" of 7,000 really is a dream.  Lets leave the village as the village and just keep it nice and clean and welcome people who wish to keep it like it is.  Simple and beautiful.

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Post by Paul2CV on Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:14 pm

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the kind words. I don't think I would make good political material! Like you, what I do have is a love and care for CV. I'm very favorably taken with the 2030 Vision statement. I hope it can get off the ground strongly. There are some wonderful ideas in it.

The part about the street lights interests me. I think that they are quite decent at Town Center and Omaha Center. I have not seen them on yet at Thunderbird Center. But there seems to be plenty of them. As far as Town Center goes, I would focus more on making pathways between the upper and lower sections.

Road lights would be a whole other level of discussion. Obviously, the more the better. Are there lights now at the Marina? It would be nice to go there at the evening.

Next posts I'd like to talk about the major roads into the Village.

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Post by mike on Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:55 am

Paul,

Excellent observations and comments on the 2030 Vision plan. You have some great ideas. When you are full time, are you going to run for city council? Your level headed thinking is always showing in your thoughful posts. Great job, Paul!

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Post by Paul2CV on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:14 pm

Low water bridges have been eliminated. The main roadways into
the city are attractive and welcoming. Street lights light up and make
safer some dark areas.



Hi Forum,

This section of the 2030 Vision above is much more important than might seem on the surface. Firstly, some readers may not know what a "low water bridge" is.

Basically, it's a very, very low bridge that is only above water under normal circumstances. If it rains a lot or floods, the bridge is more or less submerged depending on conditions. These "low water bridges" exist for reasons of expense and level of traffic. Unfortunately, the Village is no longer at a point that these bridges make sense -- especially the one going into Town Center.

We have too many older drivers and getting around is too important to be tied up with flooded out bridges -- even if it only happens occasionally. There will always be someone who will get into it and stall out. Not to mention the impact on the run off water from gas in terms of the streams and lakes. So this idea of eliminating low water bridges makes good sense. These bridges are cute, but the time has come to move on. Thanks to the 2030 team for seeing this.

I'll consider lighting and the major roads into town in my next post. What are your thoughts?

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