LOCAL BANKS

Trout,

I don't know the number of Section 8. It may be a public record in trerms of a raw number. The issue is jobs in my view coupled with a shared vision by those who live in the Village. I know that sounds sentimental to some but I hold fast to that view.

How many Title 8s do we have here in the village?

It seems that “entitlement” has become the word for “what is owed to me”. I’m with you and agree that something I have paid for is not an entitlement in my view. That would be like calling my car an entitlement while I pay for it. I think if anything, we as citizens are entitled to an explanation as to what is going on in Washington and what they have done with our money. The politicians are starting the blur the words “concerned citizens” with “troublemakers”. It seems that most of my life I have heard the praises of Social Security sung. S.S. was described as income to live on in your golden years. Lately, it has been explained that S.S. was NEVER meant to live on and was to provide a small subsidy for the massive amounts of money that we were supposed to save for our retirement. The tune had changed after they spent all our money. I would imagine that people like Bernie Madoff and many others probably got the idea for their scams directly from our government. I do realize the S.S. is basically an insurance policy and actually can be cancelled or modified but could you imagine what troublemakers we would have then? I would be right out there with them. I have wondered for quite a while now who would be the poor sucker who would have to tell us the S.S. system is going to have to be changed. I am sure we are on the brink and no matter whom the next President is he probably will be the one. I fully expect the “means test” to apply within a couple more years, which I can’t agree with because even the wealthy were forced to pay in, and the way I see it, that money is theirs.

Hi Donjulio,



Great story and I am impressed even more. There are slackers. There are bums. There is lack of ambition. All these things are true and such folks out there. But also those other things we've been discussing.



And that's what we've been trying to have here. A balanced discussion. It's been a good one in my view.



As for the word "entitlement," we need to be very careful what we are talking about. There is a world of difference between welfare as an entitlement and Social Security that I've paid into my whole life.



Right now the politicians want to blur the difference. If you had an annuity with a bank or insurance company that you had paid into month after month and they called it an "entitlement" you would go crazy. Social Security is no different. And I'm one angry voter at folks who try to dodge the insurance contract I've been paying into for years by calling it an "entitlement." Like hell it is.

Paul2CV wrote:Hi Donjulio,

Your personal story is impressive and it is a formula for a successful financial life. Clearly, Mike is on the same page. I don't disagree with the philosophy and think it is 100% right-headed.

But let's face facts. From Pay-Day loan shops to America Express, the system itself works to exact maximum profit from folks often in the least position to meet their obligations consistently and in fact has sophisticated strategies for coming out ahead by so doing on the shipwreck of people's lives. Personal responsibility? You bet. Perhaps the concept ought to flow upstream and not just down.

Don’t get me wrong Paul I am no uppity mucky muck here. I spent the largest part of my life at the mercy of the people you speak of. I got screwed from all directions and knew it. I had a wife and 4 kids and just had to suck it up and keep going. When we needed a car we just had to do the best we could which usually ended up at a dealer being overcharged for a junker and considered ourselves lucky if we paid for it before it gave out completely. I was fortunate enough to be able to fix most anything and did. Most of the houses we lived in were near the bottom of the barrel and in not too great areas because we had to take what we could afford. At one point, 6 of us lived in a tent in a campground because that was home at the time, long story there. But all in all after years and years of this we started making headway. We both worked and never were without jobs, while our friends were sleeping or on vacation, we were working. We never asked for handouts or thought about it for that matter. If we would have been starving we probably would have looked into some kind of assistance but we always managed. after “being there” I have even less use for the whiners, slackers and people in general who spend their time searching for handouts and entitlements. I hate the word “entitlement”. My wife and me are both under the impression that if we can do it most others can too. To make a very long story short, after all those years of getting by, one day I was in the right place at the right time and had positioned myself to take advantage if an advantage ever presented itself. At 55 years old I had resigned myself to working till I died. At 59 years old, I retired permanently. America is great like that. I wish more people could see it.

Hi Donjulio,

Your personal story is impressive and it is a formula for a successful financial life. Clearly, Mike is on the same page. I don't disagree with the philosophy and think it is 100% right-headed.

But let's face facts. From Pay-Day loan shops to America Express, the system itself works to exact maximum profit from folks often in the least position to meet their obligations consistently and in fact has sophisticated strategies for coming out ahead by so doing on the shipwreck of people's lives. Personal responsibility? You bet. Perhaps the concept ought to flow upstream and not just down.

I totally agree. I had, and have, a great relationship with my old bank north of the border. I still maintain accounts there after 35 years but it didn’t start out this way. I knew everyone at the bank from the president on down but still had to jump through hoops to borrow money. I always got the money but the “hoops” were policy and were for everyone. If you didn’t get through the hoop you didn’t get the money, simple. There is a saying: “If you owe the bank $5,000.00 you are in trouble, if you owe the bank $5,000.000.00 they are in trouble”. The bank seemed fond of this saying. I did however get to the point where I wrote a new business plan and was granted a business loan to get started. Now this only took 30 years of NEVER being a day late on any loan and working 7 days a week to make sure I never was. I had established myself over time as being a sure bet and when the time came where I really needed something, I was able to get it. I will be looking for a bank like this when I get to CV. A small town bank where I actually know the people and not because I may want something, it’s just the way I think we should live.

Good discussion here. I think we agree that everybody in this mess for the most part takes blame. Im' not here defending anybody, just pointing out what I think reality is. No doubt walking into a little bank here is probably more personable than other larger areas, sure, I completely agree with that. However, I doubt very much that any local bank is going to put much stock into the fact that the potential borrower is a nice guy with a hard luck story he feels sorry for if he doesn't qualify to borrow the money. It just isn't going to happen here or anywhere. Not in 2011. Anybody else want to chime in?

As to locals banks, I've always preferred Liberty Bank of Ark in Highland. I know a few people out there and enjoy a personal relationship with a couple people there but let me tell you that even though we may have a good relationship they aren't going to lend me money if I don't have the qualifications to do so, and I wouldn't blame them a bit.

Hi Mike,

I'm all for making money and real-world economics. I'm just ttrying to get us to be honest about what that real world is and it's not scummy renters and innocent bankers or business people. It was a partnership between irresponsible and sometimes criminal business people and unrealistic and sometimes dishonest borrowers. No innocents here except in rare cases. But I hold the sophisticated business professionals much more responsible for trashing this economy. It angers me to no end
that they have paid the much lesser price for their behavior. And when they moralize I want to vomit.

As for true local saving and loan banks, I'm not into Hallmark either. But I have heard some wonderful stories about local banks and handshake cultures here. One of the tragedies of these enormous mergers and the Wall Street rather than local focus is the death of those better times. This was my point all along Mike.

Yes, agreed on the banks lending money to anybody. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, no it was to make money because that's the name of the game, but there is nothing wrong with making money. They got greedy and screwed the it all up royally by lending it out to anyone and thinking real estate was going to go straight up forever. Stupid people lending and stupid people borrowing. It was both at fault and that is the cold hard reality. The "little guy" was just as bad and guilty as those idiots making the loans, don't kid yourself.

To answer your statement, "Back in the days of true local savings and loan banks there actually was generosity and kindness based on knowledge of and concern for the
community. Some of that still exists", I think you may be want that to be reality, however I really doubt that ever really existed full scale in our lifetime. Maybe in some Hallmark made for tv movies, but reality is that everybody's out to make a buck, again, nothing wrong with that, and small community banks still need to lend based on sound financial principles and very little of it is and was based on generosity and kindness. Doesn't happen very often if ever.

Hi Mike,

I agree 100% about the basic reality. We actually agree more than I think you may be reading into my posts. I would only say that the easy credit from banks was actually caused by two things and neither was the kindness of their generous hearts. The first was the rapidly escalating home values that seemed like they would never end. The other was more sinister. They were bundling these mortgages as fast as they could make them for mortgage-backed securities. In fact they were leaning on brokers to not verify income. The present tightening up is their response to the consequences of their own actions.

Back in the days of true local savings and loan banks there actually was generosity and kindness based on knowledge of and concern for the community. Some of that still exists

I never said anything about the morality of anybody in the banking business. I'm just saying that any local bank is not going to lend money to anybody with lousy credit, little income, and no money in the bank. It's the reality of today and it isn't going to change. We tried that in the last 10 years when the banks would lend money to anybody with a pulse. That was a disaster. Again, I'm not saying anything good or bad about banks in general, I really don't care about that. I'm simply saying that I personally wouldn't lend money to someone who I didn't think was going to pay it back, neither would you, and neither will any of the local banks. They won't and they shouldn't, no matter how unfair it seems to some people. To me, that's just common sense.

Hi Mike,

Like the banks we just finished bailing out are credit worthy! lol Or maybe the financial institutions that gave us mortgage-backed securities or the rating agencies that gave the AAA up to the time it all collapsed are worthy of our serious regard in the policies they set for everyone else. Seriously, it's hard to take a moral lecture on credit worthiness from banks and their Wall Street buddies.

Then of course there's the other game that gets played. People make companies or personal corporations or LLCs and run them into bankruptcy often using the income for personal expenses -- and walk away clean on their personal credit reports.

It's hard to argue the system isn't rigged in one direction only. But I do agree that there is a such thing as credit worthiness and that many in the rental market don't fit the valid category. But some do from an honest appraisal of their basic bill paying history. The problem is that it isn't just "credit score" that matters but income. And that's were i feel many deserving folks get a bum ride.

As for the many folks who aren't credit worthy but are nonetheless in the rental market in CV, we might ask to what degree that is fair to them and to the rest of us.

Donjulio makes a great point about not being sentimental in one's analysis. Again, I do agree that there are folks who aren't credit worthy. But the system itself has lost its right to moralize.

Hi Mike,

Like the banks we just finished bailing out are credit worthy! lol Or maybe the financial institutions that gave us mortgage-backed securities or the rating agencies that gave the AAA up to the time it all collapsed are worthy of our serious regard in the policies they set for everyone else. Seriously, it's hard to take a moral lecture on credit worthiness from banks and their Wall Street buddies.

Then of course there's the other game that gets played. People make companies or personal corporations or LLCs and run them into bankruptcy often using the income for personal expenses -- and walk away clean on their personal credit reports.

It's hard to argue the system isn't rigged in one direction only. But I do agree that there is a such thing as credit worthiness and that many in the rental market don't fit the valid category. But some do from an honest appraisal of their basic bill paying history. The problem is that it isn't just "credit score" that matters but income. And that's were i feel many deserving folks get a bum ride.

As for the many folks who aren't credit worthy but are nonetheless in the rental market in CV, we might ask to what degree that is fair to them and to the rest of us.

Hey Paul and Mike,

I have been reading your back and forth here and would like to jump in. I may be wrong but I detected a thread in the discussion of maybe taking people with little money and poor credit and providing them with houses somehow. Isn’t this pretty much what started the whole housing mess? I also don’t agree that jumping through hoops to provide people with housing at any cost is going to create “personal ownership and investment” thus “pride” in the community. I seem to remember this being tried during the 60s and 70s and it turned into an utter failure with hundreds of thousands of houses completely destroyed and left as trash after they became unlivable. True that some actually made the low, low house payment but they just didn’t have enough money or pride to actually keep up the property. My personal feelings are that something for nothing does not work. Folks quickly become accustomed to this way of life and before you know it a helping hand becomes a bitten hand as people lose sight of the original concept, take on an air of entitlement and resent the giver.

Generally, but not always, if you have bad credit it’s simply because you don’t pay your bills on time. I have really never noticed the power company and such on credit reports. Your credit history is mostly based on credit cards, auto purchases, housing and loans. If you don’t pay these on time you are a bad credit risk. If you do not pay credit cards it seems especially disturbing as these are generally used for discretionary purchases, which are generally things you don’t HAVE to have. If you don’t pay these you really are a bad risk and probably shouldn’t be trusted with a large purchase.

I haven’t seen the village yet but am sure there are areas that are distressed and for all I know I could be moving into one. I have a rental house there and really haven’t seen the area where it is located but I am hoping for the best. Wherever it is will not stop me from keeping the place up and keeping it looking as good as I possible can.

As far as “bashing the horrible banks” goes, I think the banks and mortgage companies have been doing people a favor up until now. They have been giving loans to people who should never have been given the responsibility of home ownership and lets face it, the borrowers blew it. I know of no way to protect people from themselves, face it, many of the borrowers didn’t have a clue and assumed they were going to make $1200.00 a month house payments on their $1500.00 salary. Certainly they should have never been allowed to participate but then you have turned another family down and destroyed the American dream.

I do agree Paul that people have paid off debts and have been paying rent on time for two or more years should have a shot at buying but who is going to give it to them? Even though the chances are that a house payment would be cheaper than rent. Most people who would own the home would not carry a note, and your local banker has rules to follow and could personally be responsible for any of these loans that went bad and the bank would be stuck with another liability they really didn’t need.

I agree Mike that “everyone has a shot” and there are multitudes of poor folks who are very responsible and will pay their bills before they eat. Chances are that although these folks are poor, they have excellent credit records where many “rich” folks have lousy records and keep on trucking mainly because of cash and the ever-present “line of BS”. Statistically, that poor guy will still be making his payment every month while they are still trying to track down the rich deadbeat. Some people still don’t realize that you only build great credit by paying ALL obligations on time and not just “pay you something when I have some extra cash”. “Obligation” doesn’t mean, “pay when I can” it’s more like a blood oath.

Anyway, the Great Society didn’t and won’t work.

Paul, I disagree. Everyone has a "shot" at it. It doesn't have anything to do with being poor. It has everything to do with paying your current obligations on time every month always. If you do that, you have a good credit score, no matter how little or how much you make. The fact remains that people must have a good credit score (usually above 720) to get the best rates and they are statistically more likely to pay back their obligation as promised. Those with poor credit scores shouldn't take on the burden of a mortgage and for good reason. They have not shown to be likely or able to pay their monthly obligations on time for whatever reason. Their credit is low for a reason, and a mortgage is something they should not take on if they cannot manage to pay their credit card bill and electric bill on time every month. Not almost every month, but on time EVERY month. Also, there are plenty of well off people who have lousy credit.

Hi Mike,

I don't disagree that there is a such thing as credit worthiness. Also, I would suspect that a lot of folks in the CV rental market aren't bank-grade credit worthy. But I also know the system is rigged against poorer folks who, if they can pay the rent, could pay the mortgage and indeed usually are doing just that for the landlord. In our area, you don't often get standard employment profiles either. Those dynamics should be taken seriously. If someone can pay off their car or not be late with the rent for two years, many of those folks ought to be given a shot at these 35,000 dollar homes they're already renting. And if its true that none of them are credit worthy, then maybe CV should take a hard look at its rental culture. Thoughts?

Paul2CV wrote:What we have in the Village is many homes that could be owned by present renters if banks would deem them credit worthy. It is too bad for them and for the Village that this is not happening.

Paul, at the end of the day, as much as it's become a popular contact sport to bash the horrible banks, it's really not the bank's fault that the people coming to them wanting a home loan have horrible credit and not enough money to buy a home. It is the person's fault for whatever reason. You wouldn't loan these people money, and neither would I. There are just some people that will never be responsible enough to carry a mortgage, that's the way it is everywhere and it's always been that way. Sad, but true, and nothing will change that.

Even the people that have horrible credit due to medical reasons, downsizing, no fault or their own, etc, well then they probably shouldn't be out looking to buy a home just yet. Those people need to rent for awhile while they rebuild their lives and get back on their feet. People getting back on their feet do not need the added responsibility and burden of home ownership for awhile. It's less stress on them anyway if they do not rush right out and buy a home and they can get back up to a more stable lifestyle financially if they can rent something modest for a period of time. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Paul2CV wrote:Home ownership leads to personal investment in the community and Village Pride.

I couldn't agree more. However, it takes responsible people with good credit or to people to pay for these little homes in cash to make that happen. CV has a very high owenership rate so that's a plus. Most of the retirees own their homes outright, which is also good. CV is in a transition where it is just a fact that many of these early homes built in the 60s and 70s are showing their age now. Add to the fact that the economy is in the toilet and is not going to get better any time soon, and thus we have a slightly higher percentage of full time renters and more and more home owners can't afford to make these homes visibly more attractive. I know what you're trying to say, but I think certain areas of the village are not going to look better anytime soon.

Hi donjulio,

I would definitely say that you are right about the fall out from the housing crisis. My view is that local dynamics are different in a way that the new "one-size-fits-all" massive corporate banking structure doesn't address. Folks who fit the new paradigm will do fine. Many of the upscale homes in CV are owned by such people. But that is a minority position. What we have in the Village is many homes that could be owned by present renters if banks would deem them credit worthy. It is too bad for them and for the Village that this is not happening. Home ownership leads to personal investment in the community and Village Pride.

Paul2CV wrote:Hi Conventional!,



I had the same question. It does seem like a new bank. Now the big question is will it give local mortages to folks from the area! It really seems to be getting harder and harder for regular folks to buy a home precisely when the housing market needs them to the most and the best deals are taking place.

Paul, do you have any reasons why it is getting harder to get home loans? I get the idea it could be because of the mortgage crisis with the zero down problems. I am sure 20% down payment would grease the wheels. I know 20% can be a problem but that's the way it used to be and people managed although not all. Where we live houses are generally paid for in cash as there really isn't a home mortgage program and what we have is a system that requires large down payment and at least a 10% interest loan and not for 30 years, generally half that. Even with this people manage, even the Mexicans.

Hi Conventional!,



I had the same question. It does seem like a new bank. Now the big question is will it give local mortages to folks from the area! It really seems to be getting harder and harder for regular folks to buy a home precisely when the housing market needs them to the most and the best deals are taking place.

What are they building in place of that Simmons Bank at the South entrance of CV? Is it my imagination or did they tear that whole bank down and start over. It looks like it's going to be another bank?

We did an addition back in 06 and Liberty was the bank we used for the loan. Nice people,professional and efficient. Would recommend them

Hi Forum,

I've asked this question before but never gotten a straight ahead answer. Is the backlog of houses in the Village more an issue of tougher loan requirements from the banks or the unwillingness of many to enter the market until there is greater confidence around house values? My gut tells me it is more about loan qualifications these days.

Hi Forum,

Mike, thanks for your insights. Are there any local banks right now you would recommend for mortgages and re-finance in CV?