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Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by Paul2CV on Fri May 20, 2011 2:22 pm

Mike,

We are on the same page 100% on Code Enforcement and Charles. Too many people don't have a sense of the scope of that task and the amount done with very limited resources. for example, do folks know that they are using work release and working off fines to do a good bit of trash pick up?

I'm also with you that "nickle and dime" stuff drives folks crazy after awhile. What it does is make folks constantly reminded of a tax without collecting enough to be a meaningful solution. I still wonder if there isn't a distribution issue between SID and City funding. Again, I think we clearly need both to get the results that we have been seeing in the clean up of the Village. Lean is always good. But it reaches a point where it backfires.

Paul2CV

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by mike on Fri May 20, 2011 11:44 am

Paul, we are closer together than you think. I am all for the good code enforcement going on, and I would like to see more. CE is not the problem and is not one place I would cut too much as I said in my previous post supporting Charles DeLoach. The city is lean on many things, but the sense of urgency does not seem to be a priority, and that is one thing Charles Deloach is obviously upset about, and rightly so. The city council seems to be playing politics at the hands of low paid city employees. That is how it appears and I hope I'm wrong. Also, if funds coming into the city from taxes and SID are down, where is the new money for new projects going to come from? It's either hit up the residents, get rid of more employees, and/or cut some services. If you get rid of employees, then who is going to do the new projects? Catch 22 and one reason I would rather keep on the payroll the outdoor employees who are keeping up the amenities around the village and doing the good CE work. I also want to keep people from getting upset and moving away because they will believe, whether it's true or not, that they are being nickeled and dimed to death.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by Paul2CV on Fri May 20, 2011 9:48 am

Mike,

Actually, what I'm most concerned about is precisely what you mention as being able to be put on hold. What I have seen under the hand of the City and particularly Code Enforcement is nothing short of a turnaround in both the appearance and culture of this town. CV is no longer a "two tiered" place where part of the Village gets a pass (largely for the rental interests) and the upscale sections stand aloof from the rest. What we are seeing now is one standard and what has been done with the extremely limited resources extended the City is nothing short of amazing. It is "penny wise and dollar foolish" to stop this momentum. Frankly, I can't stand the lack of credit given the City for this work. It's ungrateful and wrong. And as you note, no one is making anything but modest salary money down there. It's the leanest City machine I've ever seen.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by mike on Thu May 19, 2011 11:32 pm

Guys I think it boils down to we are in a down economy. Cv is a small town and the city just needs to be a frugal as it can until the economy gets better and people start spending more money. Cutting the few city jobs there are is not the answer, especially since those jobs being cut are low paying jobs paying probably less than 10 bucks an hour. As you know, I am all for spending money to spruce up and improve the city, but i'm also realistic that some of that is going to have to wait awhile. Raising taxes in an economic environment like we have presently is not a good idea. So that means one thing. Get as lean and mean as we can as a city, and I just do not think that is happening right now. Again, I do not see a sense of urgency out of city hall and that needs to change. They appear to like the status quo and that rubs me the wrong way. CV is better than that.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by Paul2CV on Thu May 19, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi trout and Mike,

I would be happy to look at numbers and sources of income. Do you have copies of the budgets for both SID and City?

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by trout on Thu May 19, 2011 5:32 pm

Paul, you need to check out your numbers. The city get state turnback money, grants, fees, property and personal property tax at 3 mil. That is a lot more that $1.50 per lot. SID gets accessment fees of about $132.50 per lot and this if the lot owner pays which a large majority do not and the lot goes back for taxes to the state. The problem is the city spends on things it does not need to spend money on. Like a building for a farmers market, pay alderman and mayor salaries and benefits and a road department and police department that can be contracted out. City has no idea on how to manage a budget it is that simple.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by Paul2CV on Thu May 19, 2011 12:46 pm

You guys don't have my support on this whole line of thinking. Let me declare myself once again clearly, I believe the City is both necessary and motivated by caring, hard working, and competent people. We can argue the merits of any particular mode of taxing. But what I see is a bigger picture that I was trying to get on the table under my post "A Little Theory."

Basically, I believe that the combined efforts of City and SID are necessary to both run and grow Cherokee Village. If you bring the issue down to actual tasks to be done, the City and SID are doing together what truly needs to happen here and either one alone would not be comprehensive enough.

The basic difference is that the City is NOT adequately funded for its share of the work. I believe this goes back to the early history of the City. It was desired to have a democratically elected body and a City charter for certain services and growth. However, this desire was never adequately funded. I'm not saying new taxes are necessarily needed in any given case, but rather that the distribution of revenue between SID and City is unbalanced. $1.50 in City taxes per lot is clearly not enough by any reasonable standard. If you compare it to the amount going to SID, it becomes even clearer what the issue is.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by trout on Thu May 19, 2011 11:47 am

Mike could have said it better. I still would like to know why we bought a "farmers market" building for $87k when we have no money and are using the CD reserve fund. These people have no gray matter between their ears. They just keep spending and creating taxes and fees for what? The roads in our hood are in very sad shape and the road department recently made them worst by trying to clean out ditches. I would like to see a State audit of city books and see where all the money has been going. Who did we get the FM building from? Was that a deal and why was it not bid out. I really would like to see this city disolved and have SID regroup and manage the village. They do have the knowledge and experience to do a better job that the clowns at city hall.

trout

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by mike on Thu May 19, 2011 11:22 am

This seems like a comedy routine, keystone cops, bumper cars, abbot and costello, and romper room all rolled into one. Very embarrassing.

I am grateful there seems to be some level heads on the city council, but can someone in city govt please tell me who the hell has a clue about how to run a small village? It appears that some of these people are biding their time, twiddling their thumbs going to city council meetings and nothing else. Some seem to really do nothing but make messes where none need to be made. If that is not a correct statement, then prove it, but that is how it looks these days.

http://www.areawidenews.com/story/1728658.html


Hefley explained to council the majority of cities have a sales tax to
help them pay for things within the city. The uniqueness of Cherokee
Village is there are not a lot of storefront businesses and sales tax
is only charged up to $2,500 according to one resident at the meeting
who is concerned this is not a viable solution.

Bingo. I think I said this in the original post on this topic, didn't I? The sales tax is a complete waste of time. They are wasting time and money on something that will do more harm than good and bring in just enough money annually to wash 3 patrol cars, pay the light bill at city hall for one month, and rake a few leaves at Papoose Park, maybe. Time is money, and our city council and mayor seems to be wasting the taxpayer's time. There does not seem to be a sense of urgency.



Prior to adjournment of the Financial Task Force meeting, Code
Enforcement officer Charles Deloach took the podium in a less than
pleased fashion. Deloach said, "We are beating this thing like a ping
pong ball, these people behind me would like to know if they are going
to have a job. They would like to know where we are going in June, we
are still where we were in October of last year. I think it is time we
crap or get off the pot. My department has cut 20 percent out, we need
to know what you are going to do, if you are going to fire us, do it,
but we need to know."

Charles is right. Crap or get off the pot.

We are in a recession. Local small town govt will have to make due with a bit less. With as little as some of the city employees are paid, Charles is right. However there is always room for real cuts, or at least a reduction in the rate of increased spending, to make the dollars go farther until times get better. That is obvious.

To those in city govt....Get your act together or get out of the seat. Have I made myself perfectly clear?

I cannot wait to run for city council when I am able but it is going to have to wait a bit longer.


Last edited by mike on Thu May 19, 2011 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by Paul2CV on Thu May 05, 2011 11:07 pm

Okay guys, let me chime in on this one. The persistent problem in my view is not going back to the basics. Three questions:

1) Does the City provide needed and wanted services?
My answer: Yes
2) Are we taxed too highly for those services?
My answer: At a $1.50 average tax per lot, the answer is clearly no.
3) Would/could SID provide the same services any cheaper?
My answer: I doubt it.

I think Mike is on to something but I go to a different place in terms of my conclusion. If the City has had a problem, it has not been of its own making. Rather, it has been underfunded for what folks really want in terms of Village services.

For the same reason I would come to a different conclusion to my friend trout. The issue isn't that the City is doing things it doesn't need to do or people don't want. Rather, the City is underfunded for what most people really want it to do.

In fact, I think the City has done an amazing amount on the budget it has relative to the size of CV and the nature of Village upkeep and services.

I don't like lots of fees either. I'd rather have a straight up tax. And a huge chunk of it should go to Code Enforcement.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by trout on Thu May 05, 2011 9:49 am

Mike I think you are missing the point here. We did not have all these taxes and fees before and we don't need them now. If we just say ok no big problem with them these AH will continue to raise them and spend it. CUT COST FIRST I can only see them to continue this and I really don't want to be a part of it. I came here for the lack of government not more government. Yes it is still cheap but these silly hall people will continue to spend. They want a sewer system can you imagine what that would cost. Next we will have curbs, gutters street lights. Just when does it stop.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by guest1 on Wed May 04, 2011 7:02 pm

I still pay next to nothing to play golf and my yearly tax bill in October is $468. Water bill for me is lower than what you said. You better not say that too loud or they will raise it to 10%. Never praise a politician. It only encourages them.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by mike on Wed May 04, 2011 3:15 pm

Trout,

I hear you, believe me I do. I do not like this nickel and diming that is so prevalent in all government and CV is no exception. I think you're fighting a losing battle in trying to remove the city charter and going back to only SID. I do believe it's a problem, but it's not the major problem. It is always the people in the elected seats. How hard can it be to get people in those seats that have fiscal responsibility and people that honestly do not want to spend the public's money foolishly?

Having said that, I think you're crazy to pack up and move because of these little tax increases. Again, it's all a numbers game. You came to CV for a reason and that main reason has probably not changed. You came for its small town charm, its rural characteristics, the low cost of living, and its natural beauty. I assume that, but it's probably a pretty good assumption, right?

Your living costs are still low. The costs of moving will run into the thousands of dollars for the selling/moving/buying costs plus the time and aggravation that goes along with it all. That's a fact. Even with these nickel and diming little extra fees that rub you and I the wrong way, it would take you many years to break even in your relocation expenses, and that assumes you move to an area of the exact same cost of living. Trying to find an area with a lower cost of living with the same or better amenities is going to be hard to find. If you find an area with a lower cost of living, chances are you will be giving up amenities that brought you here in the first place.

So don't get me wrong. I hear what you're saying but mathematically speaking, relocating because of some of these extra fees and taxes still is not enough real dollars to make you, me, and many people even notice it financially in the pocketbook.

Even if the water bill were to be taxed an extra 10% and a big water bill would be $100.00 per month before those taxes are tacked on, I'm not going to change my life for what amounts to $120 yr. The absurd 1% sales tax in the city isn't going to generate a whole heck of alot in real dollars from me or most people, again, not enough to make me change my life one bit, but I don't have to like it and I will call out stupidity when I see it from elected leaders even if it is small change stuff.

I would never move away based on these higher taxes for what probably amounts in real dollars to most people to less than the cost of a couple of pizzas per month.

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Re: Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by trout on Wed May 04, 2011 1:15 pm

Mike they really did not look seriously at cutting cost, they could contract out road work, law enforcement and cut back on many other things. like the new salary that the aldermen get now. I would like to see the city give up the charter. They are costing the villagers money . We never had or needed a property tax, personal tax, franchise fees when we only had SID. I have found that if you give them the power to tax they will find ways to spend that money and ask of more. We are now considering relocating to Missouri since this city has lost it's focus and continues to think it is a real city.

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Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

Post by mike on Wed May 04, 2011 11:30 am

Cherokee Village City Council Passes the Franchise Fee

http://www.areawidenews.com/story/1724265.html

Folks, your taxes are going up and there's no way to sugar coat and explain away this failure of the city council to do the right thing when the economy is bad.

I am not in favor of what the city council did. They are raising taxes when they should be looking for ways to cut costs. In my opinion, they did not look hard enough.

Not only that, and this is the worst part. They voted in favor of passing an ordinance to get a one percent sales tax put on the ballot for a special election! The only good thing is that the council must vote twice more to get the sales tax on the ballot in a special election. There is still time to stop this.

With this, I have come to the conclusion that our city council cannot do simple math. If they could, they would realize how completely stupid and pointless this one percent sales tax is, and how much it is really going to cost.

Think about it. The sales tax may bring in a piddly amount of $50,000. Who cares? Big flippin' deal! $50k is not going to change the life of any city, but it is going to anger alot of people and put added burdens on residents and businesses. Bad idea, city council. Bad idea, Mr. Mayor.

The cost of the special election may run as high as $2800. Therefore, the charges to get the fifty grand is going to cost the city 5.6%, leaving the city with a net of $47,200. That's not cheap. This also does not take into consideration all the extra added costs to the residents in actually voting. Voting is not free. Your time is money. Your gas is money, etc. This is a joke. This is ridiculous. This is mathematical pornography.

Mayor Hefley, you are losing my support and you are losing it very fast. How do you intend to get my support back?

mike

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