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Annexation of Cherokee Acres

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:05 pm

Anymore news on the upcoming meeting?

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:17 am

Hi Aggie,

Thank you greatly for your post. Your insights and views are exactly why this Forum is important and the reason it is here for everyone. We need information and insight into things that we don't understand or can hear only one side of. You have truly enlightened me. I do hope that you will continue to post on this matter and any other.

I am a firm believer in deeds and property rights. You are making a case from that perspective. Let me affirm with you that the properties in Cherokee Acres are lovely and very well kept. The increased lot sizes are nice and the views amazing. If you are to take this on, it is important that you work on a basic public perception that CA receives "services" and benefits and therefore should be with CV. I'm simply saying here that this is a perception issue that you will need to take head-on for a good public response.

As for your experiences with zoning, I don't want to get into things I don't know much about. What I do know something about is the related matter of Code Enforcement.

As you point out, code enforcement is critical to CV's proper upkeep and quality of life. On this matter I want very strongly to defend Code Enforcement's work over the past several years. It has been amazing in its impact and diligence.

The only problem with Code now is the amount of resources committed to it. It is short-sighted on CV's part not to get more inspectors and enforcement personnel. I can say this without qualification, what Code Enforcement has done for the Village with the resources it has is astounding and deserves recognition.

Please keep posting!


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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by mike on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:12 am

Aggie,

Welcome to this forum. Your input is very valuable since you are a CA resident. You have definitely changed my thinking on this issue. Very interesting post. You have some very good points, I can't argue with good logic. I now completely agree that this issue should have been brought to a vote. Why didn't it? If I were you, I would bring that up at the meeting and ask why it did not or could not be brought to a vote. That may be something to help in a delay tactic. Get it on the ballot in September or November maybe.

I will stick to my belief that even you CA residents win this one, you do realize you are probably putting off the inevitable. It will be part of the city eventually, but putting this off for awhile may be a good thing to really think this thing out.

Hope to hear from you on this forum in the future!

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We chose to live in Cherokee Acres

Post by Aggie on Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:51 am

My husband and I did live in Cherokee Village but when we received a quote of $45,000 to build a garage/workshop that "matched" our house as required by CV zoning, we went looking for a differrent place to live. We found Cherokee Acres, whose selling point was that Cherokee Acres had its own covenants, lots were all 3 acres i.e. it was country living.

Now, here we are AGAIN. We'll be under the Hrezo Planning and Zoning Regime. He claims he "needs to have control over us". My answer to that is drive into Cherokee Acres. You will not find one property with garbage piled up in car ports, junker cars, animals unleashed wandering properties, unkempt lawns.... so what does Hrezo need to control???? Maybe Planning and Zoning should look in its own backyard at properties with 7-8 cars in various states of repair, garbage piled up on porches and in back yards (nastry varmints using them as feeding grounds), beer cans tossed out back doors buried in grass that might get cut once a year, litter in public right of ways.

We are told there are benefits to us like decreased fire rates: WRONG. My insurance company said there will be no difference in our rates as annexation will have nothing to do with insurance rates. It only has to do with the Class rating of the fire department that serves the whole area. Supposedly, another benefit would be police protection. We already have that from Fulton County. Another benefit we're told is being able to vote in city elections. Since annexations don't even get on the ballot, why should that make a difference. Public input is not sought.

And amid all this, if you do drive into Cherokee Acres, note that you will be driving on a gravel road and one would think if Cherokee Acres is being assumed into the Village that it would get a paved road. WRONG again. Somehow the rules of CV whereby all city streets are to be hard surfaced will not apply to us. Sounds like discrimination to me!!! Mr. Hrezo, where are you now?

Actually our major concern is that the residents of CV are being asked to take on the responsibility of 160 acres for police, fire, animal control, grading, roadway upkeep. Wrong again. They are not being ASKED, they are being TOLD and they have NO INPUT. The least that should have been done here is that annexation should have been placed on the ballot.

City Council will be have annexation on its Thursday, April 7 agenda. Meeting starts at 6:30 PM at City Hall. Even if there are CV residents who don't care one way or the other about our annnexation, they should at least care that public opinion has little impact on Council decisions.

Aggie
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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Chuck K on Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:52 pm

Hi Trout, I think you are on the right track. I think we should annex Hardy right up to this side of the Spring River. They are not taking care of it, and we could get a grasp on the Beach Club entrance, clean it up, and reopen the Beach Club. That's a great idea! I would love to see Wayne on the clean-up crew. Just better make sure that there is no "accidental" escape.
In regards to Cherokee Acres, let them have what they want. if I were looking to invest in real estate right now, I would buy some property up there while they are shooting themselves in the foot. I can't believe their short sightedness. It could bite their butt in the end, no pun intended.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 pm

Hi trout,

Your sense that 5,000 is more realistic is reasonable. I wouldn't sell short those ebay sales. They do lead to relocation and some of those years of lots on ebay will transform into visits and relocation.

We need to remember that coming to CV from the outside as a permanent move requires a means of income. As long as the employment prospects are few, the movers will largely be retirees with pensions and so on.

I do know personally folks who bought lots and wanted to come but found they couldn't figure out how to make enough income locally. They still plan to retire to CV, but will have to wait until Social Security and pension kick in. What I'm saying is, let's not write off the possibility of growth from those ebay sales. Some of those buyers have a few years to go before they can act.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by trout on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:00 am

Paul, yes there was a big buy on Ebay several years back. Remember ParLago? But have they been paying their taxes and assessments these past few years. Those lots could return,once again, on to the not paid tax rolls. Paul being very realistic now, 7,500 pop. will take two life times if ever. We grew 23 people in 10 years . Even a 5,000 pop will not be seen in our lifetime. Let's just enjoy what we have and try to bring more of us together through village activities. The ice cream social is nice but we need to maybe try something that will bring in younger folks along with our more older ones. Maybe that would help spread the word and increase the population a little. Huh?

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:54 pm

Yes, Mike, you are right about the impact of every lot development. I understand those who fear any change in the basic feel and character of CV. My sense is that "spot" of transition would be about 7,500. But clearly we could get there with only an increased sense of vitality, not congestion.

Many think that any movement in growth of that size is extremely unlikely. It is understandable that folks feel that way. But I'm not so sure. Firstly, there has been an explosion of lot ownership from ebay sales. Some of that will turn to actual retiring.

The other driver, I think, is that each incremental movement in "vitality" and sense of improved community life will start a process that will feed on itself. I've seen this happen to many other places.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by mike on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:24 am

trout wrote:Outsiders are watching this and this is not what we need to show a good side of the village.

Interesting take on this. You're right in that respect. I honestly don't think the city is trying to become HSV, but I get your point. This reminds me of looking at maps of the village with all the roads and how large CV really is, and what Cooper's dream was. I think we're all glad The Cooper Vision never panned out all the way. Why do I say that? Just take a look at that map

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RofAT2Aija4/SpHM1Tw3TvI/AAAAAAAACew/LRk5A5HFTXE/s1600-h/cherokee_village_map.jpg

Imagine if Cooper had sold every lot and ever lot had a home built on it. This place would have a population the size of Little Rock! Ok I'm exaggerating, but imagine this city with all those people!? None of us would be here now, that's for sure. I certainly wouldn't. If I did, I'd be over in the craziness, crowded golf courses, indy 500 weekend lake crowds, big govt meddling, and high fees ans taxes that are all associated with the disasters that are HSV and BV. Not for me. Imagine how crowded the golf courses and lakes would be here if every lot in CV had a house on it. It would be a disaster and nothing I'd be interested in. Thankfully, that can never be a reality.

So, what I'm saying is finding that balance, and that's where the debate comes in. Some want CV to grow a little, some don't. Nobody wants the town to become a ghost town, and nobody wants CV to be as big as Bella Vista either. The good thing is both sides are fairly close together. My guess is CV isn't going to change much in the next couple of decades, and that's fine with me. We all have our fine tuning we would like to see, but all in all, I think all of us with interests in Cherokee Village don't want to see it change all that much from where it is today.

Am I right?

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by trout on Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:24 am

If this is the place they would like to move to based on how this city government works. Not listening to the citizens on several occasions make people think is that where I want to live. Maybe Bella Vista, Hot Springs Village or Ashflat etc might be a better place. This boths me and we are rethinking our being here.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:51 am

Hi trout,

When you say that this matter of CA is of interest to outsiders and they are watching, what do you believe they are watching for and what would be their concern?

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by trout on Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:58 am

Sid assesments are based on road frontage plus if you are a lake or golf lot. So if they go that way their "SID assessment" would be greater if they use the road frontage approach. This is a loose loose situation for both parties. CV should spend their time and money of something that will help not cause problems . Outsiders are watching this and this is not what we need to show a good side of the village.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:22 pm

Hi Trout & Mike,

Mr. Cooper wanted this section in the initial plan. He couldn't get the owner to sell. At least, that is my understanding of the history going back. Bottom line, a deed is a deed. I understand owners wanting to feel in charge. It sure is lovely up there -- great views, nice houses.

The economics are another matter. It seems to me that it makes little economic sense to Cherokee Acres not to be a part of CV and little economic sense for CV to want CA to be a part of it. But here we find the exact opposite happening. CV wants it, and CA doesn't.

Here's my thinking: If CA is "grandfathered" in as the article states, and they are already paying 100 dollars a year for fire, why not spend an extra $50 a year and get the SID facility benefits, not to mention road repair/upkeep. The article even suggests that their insurance rates might go down as a "fire rating" if they are annexed. It seems to me a net plus for them, unless the lots up there are going to be assessed at some higher rate than a standard CV parcel. But again, there's talk of "grandfathering." So I don't think the SID fees would be higher because of the larger existing parcel sizes up there.

Now CV gains a few residents. It also completes Mr. Cooper's vision of getting that bit of land. But they end up maintaining a large area with few existing houses. It would seem to me to be a possible serious expense for the return, not to mention the possible legal struggles. Maybe I'm missing something. Again, it is nice up there.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by trout on Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:05 pm

Mike since their roads are just gravel, how much will it cost us to pave them. Since that would be required and the city would have to do it. No one at the meeting on the city side made a case for this annexation. Only that they could vote, get fire protection that they already have and help the city move towards 5,000. There were absolutely no data showing how it would help them. Only that Mr Cooper wanted to but didn't. That was one of the most stupid statements I have ever heard and this was from the zone/code man. What a joke. Things like this do not help sell the village it only hurts us and make people think twice about moving here. Like I said before it is the little things that can make you or break you. Just my thoughts.

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by mike on Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:05 pm

Trout, I don't really disagree with you. Like I said, it doesn't make a difference to me really. All I'm saying is both sides are exclaiming "major huge costs, major huge costs", and I just don't see it. Sure there will be costs but it's not like it's going to make CV go broke or it's going to fundamentally change the household finances of these 10 families. I think I'm just being level headed on this deal and the city and the residents of CA are making this out to be The Louisiana Purchase for god sakes lol. This is a yawner in my book. But like I said, eventually it will be annexed just by default of its location. It may be years from now or very soon, but it will happen. Do I care? Not that much to tell you the truth. Let them stay by themselves. It won't change much at all either way. Just my two cents.

Here's a good article I found last night on the last meeting.

http://www.writeforarkansas.org/is-cherokee-village-overstepping-its-bounds/


Last edited by mike on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by trout on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:54 am

Mike I have to disagree with you on this. The people of CA DO NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF THE VILLAGE. They see the BS that goes on there and they do not want any part of it. We will all be dead before the village has a population of 5,000. Adding these people makes no sense and will cost us not them. Sometimes it is better to leave it alone, change is not always good. I hope the alderpeople vote no on this issue.

Idea why don't we just annex Hardy, Highland and Ashflat and then we will have 5,000 (lol)

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by mike on Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:54 pm

The annexation would only be a few house, 10 I think, so it is a very minor deal in terms of it will not drastically change the village in any way and actually nobody will really even notice. The big deal is the goal of getting over 5000 people in the village eventually so that CV has access to more grant and tax money, I believe. However, that handful of people isn't a big number so that goal of 5000 is still away off.

Believe me, I don't really have a strong opinion on this one way or another, but I will say this. Cherokee Acres is completely surrounded by Cherokee Village. Their mailing address is Cherokee Village Arkansas 72529. They say they don't use CV amenities but you don't actually believe that, do you? I do not.

So whether it is annexed now, I could really care less, but eventually reality will take over and of course it will be annexed because it is Cherokee Village. It will happen eventually and it really should not be any big deal. We're not talking any kind of big money on either side of this debate. Sure, there are new costs on both sides, but it is not any kind of life changing event for any of those residents or for the village. In my opinion, this is blown out of proportion and those Cherokee Village Acres people, ooopps I mean Cherokee Acres people are making a big deal out of not much.

Take a look at this map http://goo.gl/eJogJ

I think it looks like CV to me, doesn't it? (insert chuckle here)

So what I am saying is, who are they kidding?

If it walks like a duck......

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:38 pm

Hi Forum,

There was a meeting on the 17th about the proposed annexation. Did anyone attend?

Here is a portion of the news account from the excellent Spring River Chronicle (the link is at the end of the story):

"The city of Cherokee Village will hold a public hearing on March 17 at 5:30 p.m. in the City Hall Court Room to discuss the plan to annex Cherokee Acres. Cherokee Acres is approximately 160 acres of land and 10 residences just across the Fulton County line in Cherokee Village.
According to the Cherokee Village Planning and Zoning committee, residents of the area stand to receive substantial benefits from the annexation. Currently residents of Cherokee Acres pay the city of Cherokee Village $100 annually for fire protection. If annexed in to Cherokee Village, that fee would be dropped and those residents would only have to pay a 2 mil tax.
Currently, Cherokee Acres has gravel roads that they maintain jointly with Fulton County and snow removal is handled by a local resident with his tractor. Cherokee Acres residents will also be eligible to vote in Cherokee Village elections and run for political office in Cherokee Village.
Residents of Cherokee Acres are not so optimistic about the prospect of joining Cherokee Village, with 100 percent of the land owners against the initiative. Approximately a decade ago, when rumors of annexing Cherokee Acres first made their way to residents, they began going to the Cherokee Village City Council meetings....

State law allows for cities to annex land that they completely surround and according to Cherokee Village’s most recent surveys of the land, they have Cherokee Acres surrounded., but King contests these surveys. King says Cherokee Acres residents want to avoid the politicking and economic turmoil that go with being part of Cherokee Village...."
http://myspringriver.com/2011/03/11/cherokee-acres-residents-oppose-annexation/

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:58 pm

Hi Forum,

Seems like no one wants to touch this topic. over 75 views but no comments! What are the issues here and what's going on? Does anyone know what's happening at this point?

Paul2CV

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:47 am

Hi Forum,

For those outside the Village, Cherokee Acres is internal to the Village but was not a part of Mr. Cooper's purchase. The owner held out so to speak. What has developed there is a community within a community. The issue is not only internal coherence but the use of City resources but those outside the normal structure of SID fees. What is wonderful about the area of Cherokee Acres is the stunning views. Also the lots are generally quite large. When you visit the Village, do go and take a drive up there.

Paul2CV

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Re: Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:01 pm

Hi Forum,

Is there any news on the plans to annex Cherokee Acres? If you know about the situation, what do you think about it?

Paul2CV

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Annexation of Cherokee Acres

Post by Paul2CV on Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:00 pm

Hi Forum,

A little while back there was a great deal of talk about the prospect of annexing Cherokee Acres, which is inside the Village but which never sold to Mr. Cooper at the time of the development. It sure is lovely up there. Does anyone know the status of that situation? If anyone needs background, here is an article from the Village Journal.

http://www.areawidenews.com/story/1553482.html

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